Episode 12

Episode 12: Finding the unusual thing (and communicating better in scenes)

Last week I promised an episode about finding the unusual thing: how you find what’s weird at the top of a scene when you’re setting up the base reality that leads to the game. And here is that episode.

Communication is a challenge in improv, especially when we have different neurotypes playing together (which is probably… always). Our cognitive wiring is a fundamental difference between us, and at times it can lead to communication challenges especially when we need to agree on something important (like what’s weird!) to drive a scene forward. Finding the unusual thing, then framing the unusual thing, so everyone is on the same page and can move forward.

And… what’s WEIRD anyway? We usually know, but sometimes it might be a mystery. Because of our wiring and lived experiences. Then what?

This episode includes examples of communication between scene partners. I’ll mention a bit of science about communication in a group situation, and provide real life examples of communication breakdown between neurotypes. But mostly I talk about about improv.

Even if you’re neurotypical, hopefully this ep will help you with noticing the unusual thing in a scene and framing it. And some things to try if and when that’s hard

Hopefully - for all neurotypes - this episode will help you effectively communicate with your scene partners at the top of a scene. So we can all move together efficiently, and on the same page, for the rest of the scene.

And I missed a lot, for sure, so let me know what I missed at FlatImprov.com/substack.

About this podcast & an improv class

This podcast is hosted/produced/whatever by me, Jen deHaan. You can blame me for the whole thing, it’s my fault. You can submit your questions, heckles, comments, blame, more heckles, or even a voice note on the website. Find the contact form for this podcast at FlatImprov.com/substack. See the site for other shows and podcasts and stuff.

You can also subscribe to this podcast where you get your other podcasts - Apple, Spotify, Overcast, Castro, etc. If you like it maybe rate it if you’re on there? I’d appreciate it!

IMPROV CLASS: I have an improv class series starting Feb 28th with WGIS. This class is an improvised morning show. We’ll learn and practice the form for six classes, and then do a four show series delivered both to video and podcast. WHAT YOU LEARN: Character development, sustaining characters, world building, details, clean edits. FUN! Join us! Info here.

TALK AT YOU NEXT WEEK, IMPROV NERD FRIENDS!

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Transcript

0:15

you know who made it welcome to the neurodiversity and improv podcast from Flat improv I'm Janda Han and I do

0:23

improv stuff I like thinking about improv things a lot these podcasts aren't for telling anyone what to do I'm

0:31

just giving explanations and this is to help encourage classes teams everyone to

0:38

be a little bit more inclusive and to help whoever needs this to just get better and more comfortable at doing

0:45

improv and honestly a lot of us think this way so it's good to know that you're not alone these episodes are to

0:51

help with confidence with feeling more comfortable maybe making things a little bit easier don't force yourself to do

0:58

something you can't or don't don't want to do improv shouldn't be about that these episodes of course are not for

1:04

diagnosis either so don't use these episodes to diagnose yourself or anyone else basically we're just here to be

1:12

improv nerds nerding it out about improv so let's get started let's talk about

1:18

improv or I guess I'm just talking at you about improv and after the plug

1:23

section again I'll just have a section that's for the weirds out there so stick around if that's you and uh you can just

1:30

turn turn me off if you want if you don't want any of this in your ears

1:36

we're talking about weird and unusual in this episode let's get started so I don't know if this episode will be

1:42

controversial this is just my experience though with unusual things in improv

1:48

scenes and I don't think any of these things are necessarily right or wrong no

1:53

matter what you think this is just how I go about doing a thing currently because

1:59

as We Know all of this stuff can change and maybe even go back and forth depending on who you're doing scenes

2:06

with or what day it is we're going to talk about finding the unusual thing in

2:12

a scene today it's part of the game of the scene style of improv a really big

2:17

part of it actually you find an unusual thing in the scene you notice it you make a game out of it and go from there

2:25

however you're going to go you're going to heighten it blow it out explore success win profit whatever I have to

2:32

say though that this along with the voice of reason thing if you're not sure

2:37

what that is go back to episode 9 for more about voice of reason these are

2:43

those things that took me a little bit to figure out they were particularly

2:48

challenging I believe based on my neurodivergent neurotype for example

2:54

teachers would mention what was unusual in a scene what was the very first thing

2:59

that we might not have picked up on and sometimes for me it was things that seemed very normal and I don't think I

3:07

would have ever picked up on it but this is a lot about communication and how we

3:12

think like I was watching this video today made by another autistic person and it was about his communication

3:19

differences between him and his neurotypical wife and it reminds me of

3:24

this a bit he was detailing how his wife would ask him a question and he would

3:30

respond with a very honest automatic response to that question which was

3:35

absolutely not what his wife was after and he mentioned as it was coming out of

3:41

his mouth he'd suddenly realize this is not what she probably wanted to hear this is probably not what she was asking

3:49

about but his response to the question was his first natural response it was

3:55

sensical to him it made sense it would have been expected to him but to his

4:01

neurotypical wife it was unexpected or unusual sometimes these things can be

4:06

funny to neurotypical people sometimes we can even laugh at ourselves and that's how I kind of am sometimes

4:15

sometimes with the unusual thing in a scene like I might not see it instantly

4:20

but I might see it just a second after and it will click in as words are already falling out of my mouth so

4:28

what's unusual ual to other people is sometimes not unusual to us and this is

4:34

just our wiring this is part of our communication we might realize ah they wanted this they expected this it's like

4:42

a translation process sort of a dual translation that might happen in our

4:48

minds now I bet neurod divergent or not you will quite possibly relate in the

4:54

general difficulty in spotting the unusual hearing it or even just commun

4:59

communicating with your scene Partners having enough processing power though to think about all the Improv stuff and

5:08

this as well can be very difficult especially when everyone is starting out

5:14

so I hear this it's hard for all of us no matter what our neurological wiring

5:19

is I do think though it is potentially harder or takes increased effort for

5:25

some or many people who like me are a nerd Divergent neurotype we think

5:31

differently we have an atypical perspective by definition so whether or not some things are unusual that will be

5:39

affected by unique perspectives the ones that we all have and we're doing some extra translation in some cases to

5:46

compensate for some of these communication differences because by definition neurotypicals just a

5:52

statistically higher number of people that we're being doing scenes with so that becomes the default but it doesn't

5:59

doesn't mean that it has to become our default in the scene neurotypical and

6:04

neurod Divergent people often speak a different language and it is due to these wiring differences as we see in

6:11

the earlier example about the husband and the wife we have an extra layer on top of all the other communication

6:18

challenges humans in general have as being unique human beings and that is

6:24

great but some things get lost in translation even when we're speaking the same language as we know this can happen

6:30

between regions and cultures and backgrounds and this neurodivergent neurotypical communication is one other

6:38

way and because we think weird things are normal all the time and vice versa

6:44

for our neurotypical friends this is key Communication Breakdown Territory between scene Partners especially early

6:52

on when we're learning everything else on top of it many things in a scene we will just pick up on as unusual quite

7:00

easily this isn't a universal case some things though will have to take maybe a

7:06

beat to realize Ah that's what the neurotypical people are finding weird okay and some things might still

7:12

probably mystify us so in this next section I'm going to talk about what is finding the unusual and why do we do it

7:20

so the unusual thing what is it it's often described as simply that thing

7:25

that just perks your interest something that would make you turn your head and

7:30

go H it doesn't really have to be big it is often better if it's something that isn't all that weird it's just off

7:39

examples of an unusual thing in a scene I mean it might be something like wow

7:45

r I use a mini disc player in:

7:52

u listened to cala the puppet:

7:59

the past 3 weeks which probably sounded very specific and also might be a call back to a different show quite often the

8:06

unusual is somewhat subtle and often needs to be framed it might be big and

8:12

weird and bold like the Cala thing or it might be subtle a little bit more subtle

8:18

like the Crayons or someone else might need to make sure everyone in the scenes

8:23

nose for example it's the crayon thing and that's you framing the unusual thing

8:30

like calling it out we either do it where the person that is adding the unusual thing to the scene usually it

8:37

just comes out we're not trying to force it in there or we're listening for it we're listening for the unusual thing

8:44

maybe we're framing it or maybe our scene partner frames it at any rate we all just end up on the same page at some

8:51

point more on this in a second so whatever you do for all of this exactly

8:57

for the unusual thing seeing it noticing it framing it it can depend on who

9:02

you're playing with like your team or maybe it's the style of the theater or

9:07

the community you also might have personal preferences like I like starting with something that's a little

9:14

bit off like the crayon thing and then you can make it weirder through heightening or you can get more specific

9:20

about those things like I wouldn't do something like say I have pickles for

9:26

toes but I might be a pickle per that's really into specific flavors or some

9:33

kind of new pickle cut so it could be real perhaps so noticing the unusual

9:40

thing that often comes from practice from feeling from getting the gist from sort of that gut thing it's less rules

9:47

and structure and more something else and that just sort of the something else

9:54

Essence is often hard for us neurod Divergence I think we often like the

9:59

structure or rule book and all of this seems like a big rule but in the end

10:04

it's kind of not it's more just gut reaction we find an unusual thing

10:11

because it's often the source of the funny and the core nucleus of what a

10:18

game is because weird things are funny and funny is game but you take that nugget and then it just sort of forms

10:24

the game and that forms the scene so making sure you and your scene partner agree on what that weird or unusual

10:32

thing is really early on that helps you have an easier time throughout the scene

10:37

on agreeing what that game is and then how you'll play with that thing so how do we find the unusual thing if it is

10:46

sort of this gut reaction this feeling this thing that we have to notice that doesn't really have a concrete Rules

10:54

book about it well we end up finding that weird or unusual thing with our

11:00

scene Partners sometimes something unusual could be happening it could be an action or it might be an item or it

11:07

might be a behavior of a character it can come from wherever but it does need to be pointed out by someone in the

11:14

scene to the other people in the scene and of course also the audience watching

11:20

so that's when and why we end up framing that weird thing so the framing part is

11:26

simply communicating with your scene partner and to the audience hey this

11:31

thing here is is that's kind of weird and you might even say why it's weird basically you just want everyone to be

11:38

on that same page so you can move forward and have fun with it and I did say the word simply but it's not really

11:45

simple especially in the earlier phases this is done so many different ways and

11:52

as such it's not simple because we also have to notice it we have to communicate

11:58

and communicate in can be a challenge it's not usually as heavy-handed as hey

12:05

that's weird either that would make it easy if we always said hey that's weird but that is a little bit heavy-handed

12:11

and that's something that we might only see when we're say learning we're doing exercises but after that it usually

12:18

isn't at its core though you react to the unusual thing you care about that

12:25

unusual thing and then you go from there and you make it into a scene that's all

12:30

a very simplified version of something that's not all that simple and we often take quite a long time to get better at

12:38

so now let's talk a little bit about why the unusual why is the weird weird for

12:45

the weirdos oh that that's a weird title so things that are normal for neurod

12:50

Divergent people are sometimes weird for neurotypical people and vice versa things that are weird for the neurod

12:57

Divergent are sometimes normal for the neurotypical we're talking about things

13:02

that become Lost in Translation and how neurod Divergent humans do translation

13:09

and that can vary a lot like how I personally translate neurotypical how

13:15

fast that is when it applies it's all going to be different it's going to be different for me than it is for you so

13:22

this is the part where you need to start thinking about or analyzing your own improv practice in this regard notice

13:29

how things work for you or what might not be in place yet and then when you

13:34

find that you can start noticing your own pattern or practice a little bit

13:39

more about the communication why things are weird for us and not weird for

13:46

neurotypicals and vice versa so there was a study that was done and this was done with autistic individuals and

13:53

allistic individuals and this is autistic people and not autistic people and this study combined a group of all

14:01

autistic people together and did the telephone game that's where one person

14:07

starts a message and it goes through all the different people and then the last person repeats that message and how

14:14

close it is to the original message so they did the study with all autistic all

14:20

nonautistic and then a mixture of autistic and not autistic people and

14:25

what they found is in the group of all autistic people the message was about the same at the end the group of all not

14:33

autistic people message was about the same at the end and the mixed group the message was different at the end so a

14:41

simple demonstration of how communication differs between different neurot types so with these communication

14:48

differences of course we're going to start interpreting things in different ways things are going to be understood

14:55

that come out of our mouths in different ways and this can really affect fect what we find unusual or not cuz a lot of

15:03

the times just the way that I might say something or the way that I might answer a question is seen as unusual when to me

15:12

it just totally makes sense and again that's like the video I mentioned earlier with the husband and the wife

15:18

his answer that he gave made sense to him but then he realized oh that is unusual and unexpected to my wife and

15:26

that's how some of the communication that we have in scenes may come out quotee unquote weird or not and this of

15:33

course extends to experiences and all sorts of different things like my regular activities that I do that are

15:40

completely normal for me because that's the way that I live my life as a neurodivergent individual I know is

15:47

going to be unusual to neurotypical people but we have to get used to sort of recognizing that recognizing that

15:54

well the majority of the audience is going to see this as unusual so this is an unusual thing and sometimes that

16:02

might take a beat for us to remember because we're in the moment we're just responding right out of our gut right

16:09

out of our head and we have to do that little blip of transition oh yeah that's

16:14

right that's going to be interpreted as unusual to most people so it is and

16:21

that's okay but we do have to give ourselves the understanding that it might take us a beat to recognize that

16:27

in the moment and that moment that blip is perfectly fine so will it always work

16:33

though not always it might kind of work in just different ways for example I was

16:40

in a group monos scene and that monos scene had a game and I missed some of

16:45

the subtext because sometimes subtext can be difficult especially in this sense and that subtext was the main part

16:53

of the game in this case which is why it kind of tripped me up often times subex text is not the main part of the game so

17:01

I picked up on that game maybe 3/4 of the way through of a very long scene

17:06

like I kind of thought we were playing a game and I didn't realize oh we're playing that game until about 3/4 of the

17:13

way through but in rehashing the scene in my head afterwards cuz I knew I missed it like I realized 34s of the way

17:20

through oh I missed the gamees so I was rewinding that game in my head to see what I missed and I realized I played

17:27

the sub game I heightened the subtext of the game in pretty much exactly the same

17:33

way as had I got the subtext initially maybe even better cuz I wasn't overthinking it either but it still

17:41

worked what I sort of grasped from that experience is that we have a lot of skill that's already kind of built in

17:48

especially if we've done masking for a very long time and I mean masking of course is hard it takes a lot of effort

17:54

it's not a great thing but it is something that we have have experienced for a very long time and that we already

18:01

naturally apply to a lot of our conversations or experiences and we sometimes have that masking kind of on

18:08

autopilot so it can apply to our scenes and can be kind of useful in that case

18:13

perhaps it's also important to remember it's okay to play these things the way

18:19

that you are cuz even if you don't get some things like in this case the

18:25

subtext some of the audience isn't going to either so if you end up needing to

18:30

clarify something in character in scene this can be a good thing that can be of

18:36

service both to the scene and to your audience so in this next section we're going to look at why does it have to be

18:44

the first thing or does it have to be the very very first unusual thing that comes up in the scene so that is what

18:52

some teachers will teach they will say that the first unusual thing is the

18:58

correct one that you must take the very first unusual thing that comes up that

19:05

is perceived by them as unusual and it's sort of seen as a universal

19:10

understanding of what's weird and you might have missed it if they brought it up and that was the only correct unusual

19:18

thing for the game to be based off of later in the scene now this isn't a universal rule even in this game of the

19:25

scene style improv but it is a rule that some teachers will teach that is their

19:31

philosophy and now my opinion is that is a valid philosophy like any others it

19:37

just doesn't work for me as the type of improviser I am with the neurotype that

19:43

I have I have a different philosophy and neither of these are any less good or

19:49

valid or anything they're just different and every philosophy that we come across

19:54

this and other ones will have their own pros and cons just the con of needing to

20:01

find the very very first unusual thing in the scene that con for my brain it's

20:07

too big it has too many drawbacks so I use a different one instead and I do want to point out that ner Divergent

20:14

people some of us myself included can be rule followers if I go into a space that

20:21

has the rule that you must find the very very first unusual thing in the scene

20:28

that that is the correct unusual thing for the scene that is what the teacher

20:33

wants my brain will immediately want to only do that thing perfectly so I must

20:40

find what they think is the unusual thing I must get that thing that's in

20:45

their brain that they noticed as the very first unusual thing that came up at all and if I don't I'm a failure I need

20:53

to cancel all of my future improv engagements I must leave the community and go back back to farming and never

20:59

show my face in these parts ever again that is how my brain works but that is a bit cuz I did feel that way and I'm

21:06

still here so it's a bit anyways as you might notice through that that doing

21:11

things that way finding the very very first unusual thing that will be

21:17

perceived by The Audience by someone else it'll put me in my head I will be scanning is this weird to who is a

21:23

neurotypical person somewhere finding this weird will I catch it will I see it and on and on and on and then I'm not

21:29

enjoying myself I'm not flowing I'm not being a good improviser this way I'm

21:35

deeply in my head and I'm too focused to be a good listener and losing that good

21:41

listening thing I think is too big of a con for the benefit of noticing the

21:46

unusual thing that other people will notice as unusual and other people is

21:52

the key word the alternative is to let go and notice what you find and that to

21:58

me what you find and this might be your seam partner equally what you all agree on is the best unusual thing my way is

22:07

to just loosen up to listen make that the focus and just see what you notice

22:14

you might notice it from your scene partner saying something that's slightly unusual to you or it might be what

22:20

they're framing as unusual which might be something they did or you did and it could be the second or third thing but

22:28

all of it is still early in the scene we're not saying wait for a full minute or something this is what you and your

22:34

scene partner both notice as the unusual thing near the beginning of the scene

22:40

and that's my Philosophy for finding the best unusual thing near the beginning of

22:46

the scene as opposed to the very very very first one and I know that probably this might be making some of you angry

22:53

cuz I'm saying to break a rule someone might have taught you and for those of

22:59

you who are angry I'll have more on this soon so my mindset my brain works way

23:05

better for me not worrying about it being the very first unusual item that

23:11

anyone would see but of course that goes against what some of you have been taught and this also as such might come

23:19

off as rejecting an offer but we can also sort of ask the question was it an

23:24

offer because it might have been too subtle you might not have noticed it not because you're not noticing but because

23:31

of your neurotype so what you want to do is just enhance your listening and you

23:36

will be grabbing a very early offer of an unusual thing and as such you will be

23:43

grabbing a better one it's the one that you're both interested in if you both agree on it and you both communicate

23:50

that thing and I believe that's going to work better for the improvisors and in the end it could very well be working

23:57

better for for the scene and it just takes that stress off the top of the

24:03

scene you aren't as worried about something that is difficult potentially for you to notice or see or hear you

24:12

just know that it is going to happen early on I listen better without the

24:18

pressure of finding that very very first thing that if my seam partner sees and

24:23

Frames something I'll hopefully just get to that immediately anyway ways I'm way

24:28

more focused on my seen partner as opposed to just scanning for those

24:34

unusual things I'm being natural and I'm just using my natural neurotype in this

24:41

process as opposed to trying to do the translation into neurotypical adding

24:46

that neurotypical neurod Divergent translation process takes a lot of Cycles on its own and I believe it's too

24:53

many cycles for improv and once I did that I got a lot more bandwidth in my

24:59

brain anyway so I could just be in the scene and now I just barely notice any

25:04

of it I guess it just sort of happens that much more efficiently now so I think the key here is to just focus on

25:12

being with your scene partner more you're listening you're communicating and I believe that that leads to the

25:19

best thing being picked up as the unusual that leads to the game being on that same page is leading to a better

25:27

scene and that ultimately might be just as fast in the end maybe it even lends

25:35

itself to finding something with your seam Partners better and faster if you

25:42

end up because you're so efficient noticing the very first thing great good

25:47

on you but if it's the second thing that you both agree on that came up and you

25:52

both saw it's weird maybe that's the better game anyways so the one thing that you don't want to do in this

25:59

process is force something weird in us neurod divergents we are pretty good at

26:06

being weird by definition we're Divergent but we don't want to force

26:11

something into the scene this isn't good and it won't be funny and I'm using very

26:16

definitive language there and if that's controversial so be it because I'll stand behind that one you don't want to

26:23

force stuff in you want to just be yourself and if that happens to be weird

26:28

that is fine you'll sometimes be accused of forcing it because sometimes neurotypical people just don't get us

26:35

but make sure that you know you aren't actually forcing something in like truly

26:42

ask yourself don't lie to yourself or just make a mental note of what they

26:48

said in the note and see if you might want to adjust some of that at any rate

26:55

be your honest weird self and you'll sometimes be framed as the

27:01

weird one and that's okay because it's not forced and I know that some of the notes might be a little bit difficult

27:08

like I was just explaining about how sometimes we get framed as the weird one

27:14

or somebody will pick up on something that is particularly weird but it did come from an honest place it might have

27:20

really happened don't let that stuff get too much in your head because it is at the end of the day a really nice

27:27

experience to just let go and be ourselves and we do know that we're Nur div virgin we do know what we are and

27:35

I'm perfectly happy with that and I think that that sort of learning process

27:40

can be a neat one to sort of get through improv and if you choose to adjust great

27:45

but I think the main focus here is just being you and seeing what happens from

27:52

that place and it can be very rewarding in the end so in this next section I'll give some improv tips for the neurod

27:59

Divergence out there first of all know that this is going to be very different for all of us so take any of these tips

28:06

and advice as usual on an as needed basis I'm a very high masking autistic

28:12

ADHD individual so my experience is going to be different from yours probably in that I can read weird I can

28:19

naturally do weird I can kind of mask as neurotypical it affects how I

28:25

communicate my prior experiences in corporate life Etc will have adjusted

28:31

what I know in communication all of this kind of things so standard disclaimer for every episode one thing that really

28:38

helped me a lot in sort of understanding what was unusual how it happened how it

28:43

was grasped in the scene was watching a ton of experienced improvisers doing

28:49

this in online Liv streams from the cities this was the best advice I was

28:56

given and I think it's some of the best advice I can share for a lot of improv things I figure that watching these live

29:03

streams of experienced improvisors is just as important as classes and Reps to

29:09

explain some of this stuff and make it make sense it can be timec consuming and expensive for many of the live streams

29:16

but I do find it extremely helpful so if you can access them I do recommend those

29:21

live streams when you do want to connect with your scene Partners at the top of the scene to do the listening to listen

29:28

hard to connect with them do this in whatever way makes the most sense for

29:34

you to connect this could be through eye contact it might not be that might not be something that you can access and

29:41

that's okay play around and find the best ways to listen hard at the top of

29:47

the scene and find which ways work best for you at the top of the scene don't be

29:52

afraid to explore That Base reality a little bit to set it up clearly and make that make sense for you because that

29:59

Firm Foundation of knowing who your character is and where you are all that sort of thing is really going to help

30:06

you find that unusual thing quickly and someone will frame the unusual it might

30:12

be you but it might be one of your scene Partners make sure you're just scanning for that unusual thing or scanning for

30:20

the framing you can also rely on the framing if you have difficulty picking

30:25

out the unusual thing because maybe that just it doesn't make sense to you watch for the framing because somebody will do

30:32

that framing so maybe watching for the framing is a little bit easier than watching for the unusual and you can

30:38

focus on that until you get more comfortable in general and if you're framing something and maybe your scene

30:44

partner doesn't pick up on that like maybe it's not something that's weird to them but it is weird to you find

30:51

different ways to frame or you can just literally say that's weird or whatever

30:56

you might need to use that hard hand at times especially if you're playing with people you don't know that well yet so

31:03

that harder hand is okay especially in those cases and in general even if you

31:10

are very experienced playing with very experienced people there are times when that hard hand of that's weird is

31:18

perfectly acceptable so don't be afraid to use that when you need to with time and Reps hopefully end up getting this

31:25

all done faster and better and really efficient and funnier and go you that's

31:30

great but remember that that exploration like I was just talking about is valid

31:35

it's especially good for setting the solid foundation of a scene or a set so

31:41

it's not a bad thing if things move a little bit slower because ultimately it

31:46

might make for a better scene in the end and that solid foundation can help with

31:51

other things like setting up stronger characters or giving you the better Foundation for secondary games that you

31:59

can flip between so don't be afraid to explore a little bit so what if you have

32:04

issues in this area well one of the things that you can do is to ask for a set way to point out the unusual and

32:11

frame it this might be in a learning context it might be in a class or you might be coached Etc or you might be

32:18

just working with a team practicing this particular thing so you can all communicate better you might ask for a

32:25

specific type of reaction this could be physical it could be verbal like wow

32:30

that's weird it doesn't matter this is just to learn so whatever works best for you whatever you notice best see if you

32:37

can set up a very specific reaction that's used to frame the unusual and

32:43

that can make it a little bit easier to start noticing unusual things in general

32:49

before they're framed so you can frame them eventually if something doesn't make sense why it's weird discuss this

32:56

afterwards ask your teacher or your coach or even your seam partner why did you find that weird I just didn't

33:02

understand myself and this isn't a commentary on your scene partner or you

33:07

is just a communication thing that exists don't be afraid to have some of

33:12

those discussions afterwards about what made that weird or how do I notice that

33:17

thing this all comes down to the framing because sometimes I'm going to find a thing that my scam partner doesn't find

33:24

weird but I'm going to frame it as such to get everyone on the same page and we don't have to agree that it's weird we

33:31

just have to move on from that place it is agreeing that it's weird for the scene but you don't have to agree that

33:37

it's a weird thing in real life you're just using it for the make them UPS so you can do a lot of this without really

33:46

understanding why something is unusual you might never understand what makes

33:52

those things unusual but you can focus on the frame in part first watching for

33:59

that because it's a lot easier to do especially if you get some help in this area get good at the framing first and

34:06

then focus a little bit more on noticing the unusual thing and you can even take

34:13

something pretty mundane that might not be unusual but frame it as such so a lot

34:19

can get lost in translation between neurotypical and neurod Divergent improvisors and sorting out what is

34:27

unusual in a scene can be a source of difficulty for all of us regardless of

34:32

neurotype but it can be especially hard or a little bit harder when we have

34:38

different cognitive wiring to start off with and that's just because we communicate differently we can work on

34:45

this communication though and that's going to be using techniques like framing the unusual thing and listening

34:52

in more efficient ways to get there and hopefully not worrying about it being

34:58

the very very first unusual thing that other people find unusual it's really

35:04

useful to work with trusted improvisers that you know say in a Practice Group to

35:11

try some exercises to get used to recognizing patterns or how people frame

35:16

in order to get used to noticing the unusual thing it's also a great practice

35:23

to watch really seasoned improvisors say on those Liv streams to see how it's

35:28

done by those with a lot of experience see if you can maybe pick out some of the unusual things before they're

35:35

heightened see if you can see the improvisors noticing it or framing it in

35:40

that top of the scene see if maybe you can notice some of the subtle reactions as well what do they look like get good

35:47

at predicting moves watching improv like that it's kind of a class on its own and

35:53

also don't force it in there just don't worry about about it being that very

35:58

first thing you want to find it early and fairly quick but if you don't syn up

36:03

on the very very first thing personally I don't stress about that what you find

36:08

with your scene partner might be the better unusual thing anyways because you

36:13

both saw it you both agreed on it naturally so listen hard sync up get

36:19

used to communicating with your scene partners and getting on that same page

36:24

with them by what you both find unusual all right that's it for this week let's

36:31

close this episode out I have classes at WG improv school.com I have a lab coming

36:39

up and the lab is a series of classes where we're going to learn a brand new form and we're going to Output it on the

36:47

internet in a new way uh using a newer type of streaming technology that's not

36:53

zoom and it's also going to be output to a podcast on our we just podcast channel

36:59

so go look at the site WG improv school.com it's under the online classes

37:04

page I also have a site of my own at fla improv.com I have a lot of information

37:11

on there about online classes and jams and podcasts and so on and I have a newsletter that comes out a couple times

37:18

per month about what's going on in the community so check that out and also on that same website I have a page for this

37:25

podcast and you can send me messages or if you have a comment about something

37:30

that I've said that you'd like me to read out from you I can do that too so that's at flat improv.com

37:37

substack if you'd like to send me a message and also I told you in this episode to go watch some good live

37:43

streams so I will note that I do mention some of those in my newsletter so if you're wondering where do I go subscribe

37:49

to the newsletter and it will have links in it all right so here's an aside for

37:56

the weirds and I use that term with respect and love it's what I call myself all right so I recently saw a video

38:04

about how accommodating and self-accommodating is good but forcing

38:09

disabled people to do things and be uncomfortable is bad like telling a

38:14

neurod Divergent person to just do this is not great so I want to make it clear

38:21

that I'm not here to say to force yourself to do something something I'm

38:27

basically about accommodating yourself in improv doing you and communicating

38:33

and understanding as much as possible like we kind of have to be able to

38:38

communicate because this is a team thing it's a group thing it's a learning situation so to be part of it all we do

38:45

have to communicate in some ways and communication's always weird there's

38:50

always things getting Lost in Translation speaking up is hard but in some cases we might need need to right

38:57

and uh there's many ways to do all of that and that's what we're focused on here in the series and maybe these are

39:05

workarounds but I think just being aware on both sides neurotypical and neurod

39:10

Divergent is a good first step and if anything happens from this series I hope

39:15

that it's that that people are aware that these differences exist that these differences in communication exist and

39:23

that also we learn that we're not alone that others out there like us dealing

39:29

with exactly these things so communicating as neurod Divergence can

39:35

be a challenge and according to some of those studies we might communicate more effectively with each other like the

39:41

telephone study that I mentioned earlier but none of this is easy even to neurode

39:47

Divergent people communicating can be difficult as well so just remember that

39:52

you don't have to do anything that you don't want to do especially in improv

39:58

this is a very voluntary activity for I think all of us so self accommodate be

40:06

proactive and do what you need to do for improv and most importantly yourself use

40:14

these if they're useful to you and throw away everything that is not do not force

40:21

yourself to do anything and I think that's all I have thanks for listen

40:27

[Music]

40:39

listening you know who made

40:45

it

0:15

you know who made it welcome to the neurodiversity and improv podcast from Flat improv I'm Janda Han and I do

0:23

improv stuff I like thinking about improv things a lot these podcasts aren't for telling anyone what to do I'm

0:31

just giving explanations and this is to help encourage classes teams everyone to

0:38

be a little bit more inclusive and to help whoever needs this to just get better and more comfortable at doing

0:45

improv and honestly a lot of us think this way so it's good to know that you're not alone these episodes are to

0:51

help with confidence with feeling more comfortable maybe making things a little bit easier don't force yourself to do

0:58

something you can't or don't don't want to do improv shouldn't be about that these episodes of course are not for

1:04

diagnosis either so don't use these episodes to diagnose yourself or anyone else basically we're just here to be

1:12

improv nerds nerding it out about improv so let's get started let's talk about

1:18

improv or I guess I'm just talking at you about improv and after the plug

1:23

section again I'll just have a section that's for the weirds out there so stick around if that's you and uh you can just

1:30

turn turn me off if you want if you don't want any of this in your ears

1:36

we're talking about weird and unusual in this episode let's get started so I don't know if this episode will be

1:42

controversial this is just my experience though with unusual things in improv

1:48

scenes and I don't think any of these things are necessarily right or wrong no

1:53

matter what you think this is just how I go about doing a thing currently because

1:59

as We Know all of this stuff can change and maybe even go back and forth depending on who you're doing scenes

2:06

with or what day it is we're going to talk about finding the unusual thing in

2:12

a scene today it's part of the game of the scene style of improv a really big

2:17

part of it actually you find an unusual thing in the scene you notice it you make a game out of it and go from there

2:25

however you're going to go you're going to heighten it blow it out explore success win profit whatever I have to

2:32

say though that this along with the voice of reason thing if you're not sure

2:37

what that is go back to episode 9 for more about voice of reason these are

2:43

those things that took me a little bit to figure out they were particularly

2:48

challenging I believe based on my neurodivergent neurotype for example

2:54

teachers would mention what was unusual in a scene what was the very first thing

2:59

that we might not have picked up on and sometimes for me it was things that seemed very normal and I don't think I

3:07

would have ever picked up on it but this is a lot about communication and how we

3:12

think like I was watching this video today made by another autistic person and it was about his communication

3:19

differences between him and his neurotypical wife and it reminds me of

3:24

this a bit he was detailing how his wife would ask him a question and he would

3:30

respond with a very honest automatic response to that question which was

3:35

absolutely not what his wife was after and he mentioned as it was coming out of

3:41

his mouth he'd suddenly realize this is not what she probably wanted to hear this is probably not what she was asking

3:49

about but his response to the question was his first natural response it was

3:55

sensical to him it made sense it would have been expected to him but to his

4:01

neurotypical wife it was unexpected or unusual sometimes these things can be

4:06

funny to neurotypical people sometimes we can even laugh at ourselves and that's how I kind of am sometimes

4:15

sometimes with the unusual thing in a scene like I might not see it instantly

4:20

but I might see it just a second after and it will click in as words are already falling out of my mouth so

4:28

what's unusual ual to other people is sometimes not unusual to us and this is

4:34

just our wiring this is part of our communication we might realize ah they wanted this they expected this it's like

4:42

a translation process sort of a dual translation that might happen in our

4:48

minds now I bet neurod divergent or not you will quite possibly relate in the

4:54

general difficulty in spotting the unusual hearing it or even just commun

4:59

communicating with your scene Partners having enough processing power though to think about all the Improv stuff and

5:08

this as well can be very difficult especially when everyone is starting out

5:14

so I hear this it's hard for all of us no matter what our neurological wiring

5:19

is I do think though it is potentially harder or takes increased effort for

5:25

some or many people who like me are a nerd Divergent neurotype we think

5:31

differently we have an atypical perspective by definition so whether or not some things are unusual that will be

5:39

affected by unique perspectives the ones that we all have and we're doing some extra translation in some cases to

5:46

compensate for some of these communication differences because by definition neurotypicals just a

5:52

statistically higher number of people that we're being doing scenes with so that becomes the default but it doesn't

5:59

doesn't mean that it has to become our default in the scene neurotypical and

6:04

neurod Divergent people often speak a different language and it is due to these wiring differences as we see in

6:11

the earlier example about the husband and the wife we have an extra layer on top of all the other communication

6:18

challenges humans in general have as being unique human beings and that is

6:24

great but some things get lost in translation even when we're speaking the same language as we know this can happen

6:30

between regions and cultures and backgrounds and this neurodivergent neurotypical communication is one other

6:38

way and because we think weird things are normal all the time and vice versa

6:44

for our neurotypical friends this is key Communication Breakdown Territory between scene Partners especially early

6:52

on when we're learning everything else on top of it many things in a scene we will just pick up on as unusual quite

7:00

easily this isn't a universal case some things though will have to take maybe a

7:06

beat to realize Ah that's what the neurotypical people are finding weird okay and some things might still

7:12

probably mystify us so in this next section I'm going to talk about what is finding the unusual and why do we do it

7:20

so the unusual thing what is it it's often described as simply that thing

7:25

that just perks your interest something that would make you turn your head and

7:30

go H it doesn't really have to be big it is often better if it's something that isn't all that weird it's just off

7:39

examples of an unusual thing in a scene I mean it might be something like wow

7:45

r I use a mini disc player in:

7:52

u listened to cala the puppet:

7:59

the past 3 weeks which probably sounded very specific and also might be a call back to a different show quite often the

8:06

unusual is somewhat subtle and often needs to be framed it might be big and

8:12

weird and bold like the Cala thing or it might be subtle a little bit more subtle

8:18

like the Crayons or someone else might need to make sure everyone in the scenes

8:23

nose for example it's the crayon thing and that's you framing the unusual thing

8:30

like calling it out we either do it where the person that is adding the unusual thing to the scene usually it

8:37

just comes out we're not trying to force it in there or we're listening for it we're listening for the unusual thing

8:44

maybe we're framing it or maybe our scene partner frames it at any rate we all just end up on the same page at some

8:51

point more on this in a second so whatever you do for all of this exactly

8:57

for the unusual thing seeing it noticing it framing it it can depend on who

9:02

you're playing with like your team or maybe it's the style of the theater or

9:07

the community you also might have personal preferences like I like starting with something that's a little

9:14

bit off like the crayon thing and then you can make it weirder through heightening or you can get more specific

9:20

about those things like I wouldn't do something like say I have pickles for

9:26

toes but I might be a pickle per that's really into specific flavors or some

9:33

kind of new pickle cut so it could be real perhaps so noticing the unusual

9:40

thing that often comes from practice from feeling from getting the gist from sort of that gut thing it's less rules

9:47

and structure and more something else and that just sort of the something else

9:54

Essence is often hard for us neurod Divergence I think we often like the

9:59

structure or rule book and all of this seems like a big rule but in the end

10:04

it's kind of not it's more just gut reaction we find an unusual thing

10:11

because it's often the source of the funny and the core nucleus of what a

10:18

game is because weird things are funny and funny is game but you take that nugget and then it just sort of forms

10:24

the game and that forms the scene so making sure you and your scene partner agree on what that weird or unusual

10:32

thing is really early on that helps you have an easier time throughout the scene

10:37

on agreeing what that game is and then how you'll play with that thing so how do we find the unusual thing if it is

10:46

sort of this gut reaction this feeling this thing that we have to notice that doesn't really have a concrete Rules

10:54

book about it well we end up finding that weird or unusual thing with our

11:00

scene Partners sometimes something unusual could be happening it could be an action or it might be an item or it

11:07

might be a behavior of a character it can come from wherever but it does need to be pointed out by someone in the

11:14

scene to the other people in the scene and of course also the audience watching

11:20

so that's when and why we end up framing that weird thing so the framing part is

11:26

simply communicating with your scene partner and to the audience hey this

11:31

thing here is is that's kind of weird and you might even say why it's weird basically you just want everyone to be

11:38

on that same page so you can move forward and have fun with it and I did say the word simply but it's not really

11:45

simple especially in the earlier phases this is done so many different ways and

11:52

as such it's not simple because we also have to notice it we have to communicate

11:58

and communicate in can be a challenge it's not usually as heavy-handed as hey

12:05

that's weird either that would make it easy if we always said hey that's weird but that is a little bit heavy-handed

12:11

and that's something that we might only see when we're say learning we're doing exercises but after that it usually

12:18

isn't at its core though you react to the unusual thing you care about that

12:25

unusual thing and then you go from there and you make it into a scene that's all

12:30

a very simplified version of something that's not all that simple and we often take quite a long time to get better at

12:38

so now let's talk a little bit about why the unusual why is the weird weird for

12:45

the weirdos oh that that's a weird title so things that are normal for neurod

12:50

Divergent people are sometimes weird for neurotypical people and vice versa things that are weird for the neurod

12:57

Divergent are sometimes normal for the neurotypical we're talking about things

13:02

that become Lost in Translation and how neurod Divergent humans do translation

13:09

and that can vary a lot like how I personally translate neurotypical how

13:15

fast that is when it applies it's all going to be different it's going to be different for me than it is for you so

13:22

this is the part where you need to start thinking about or analyzing your own improv practice in this regard notice

13:29

how things work for you or what might not be in place yet and then when you

13:34

find that you can start noticing your own pattern or practice a little bit

13:39

more about the communication why things are weird for us and not weird for

13:46

neurotypicals and vice versa so there was a study that was done and this was done with autistic individuals and

13:53

allistic individuals and this is autistic people and not autistic people and this study combined a group of all

14:01

autistic people together and did the telephone game that's where one person

14:07

starts a message and it goes through all the different people and then the last person repeats that message and how

14:14

close it is to the original message so they did the study with all autistic all

14:20

nonautistic and then a mixture of autistic and not autistic people and

14:25

what they found is in the group of all autistic people the message was about the same at the end the group of all not

14:33

autistic people message was about the same at the end and the mixed group the message was different at the end so a

14:41

simple demonstration of how communication differs between different neurot types so with these communication

14:48

differences of course we're going to start interpreting things in different ways things are going to be understood

14:55

that come out of our mouths in different ways and this can really affect fect what we find unusual or not cuz a lot of

15:03

the times just the way that I might say something or the way that I might answer a question is seen as unusual when to me

15:12

it just totally makes sense and again that's like the video I mentioned earlier with the husband and the wife

15:18

his answer that he gave made sense to him but then he realized oh that is unusual and unexpected to my wife and

15:26

that's how some of the communication that we have in scenes may come out quotee unquote weird or not and this of

15:33

course extends to experiences and all sorts of different things like my regular activities that I do that are

15:40

completely normal for me because that's the way that I live my life as a neurodivergent individual I know is

15:47

going to be unusual to neurotypical people but we have to get used to sort of recognizing that recognizing that

15:54

well the majority of the audience is going to see this as unusual so this is an unusual thing and sometimes that

16:02

might take a beat for us to remember because we're in the moment we're just responding right out of our gut right

16:09

out of our head and we have to do that little blip of transition oh yeah that's

16:14

right that's going to be interpreted as unusual to most people so it is and

16:21

that's okay but we do have to give ourselves the understanding that it might take us a beat to recognize that

16:27

in the moment and that moment that blip is perfectly fine so will it always work

16:33

though not always it might kind of work in just different ways for example I was

16:40

in a group monos scene and that monos scene had a game and I missed some of

16:45

the subtext because sometimes subtext can be difficult especially in this sense and that subtext was the main part

16:53

of the game in this case which is why it kind of tripped me up often times subex text is not the main part of the game so

17:01

I picked up on that game maybe 3/4 of the way through of a very long scene

17:06

like I kind of thought we were playing a game and I didn't realize oh we're playing that game until about 3/4 of the

17:13

way through but in rehashing the scene in my head afterwards cuz I knew I missed it like I realized 34s of the way

17:20

through oh I missed the gamees so I was rewinding that game in my head to see what I missed and I realized I played

17:27

the sub game I heightened the subtext of the game in pretty much exactly the same

17:33

way as had I got the subtext initially maybe even better cuz I wasn't overthinking it either but it still

17:41

worked what I sort of grasped from that experience is that we have a lot of skill that's already kind of built in

17:48

especially if we've done masking for a very long time and I mean masking of course is hard it takes a lot of effort

17:54

it's not a great thing but it is something that we have have experienced for a very long time and that we already

18:01

naturally apply to a lot of our conversations or experiences and we sometimes have that masking kind of on

18:08

autopilot so it can apply to our scenes and can be kind of useful in that case

18:13

perhaps it's also important to remember it's okay to play these things the way

18:19

that you are cuz even if you don't get some things like in this case the

18:25

subtext some of the audience isn't going to either so if you end up needing to

18:30

clarify something in character in scene this can be a good thing that can be of

18:36

service both to the scene and to your audience so in this next section we're going to look at why does it have to be

18:44

the first thing or does it have to be the very very first unusual thing that comes up in the scene so that is what

18:52

some teachers will teach they will say that the first unusual thing is the

18:58

correct one that you must take the very first unusual thing that comes up that

19:05

is perceived by them as unusual and it's sort of seen as a universal

19:10

understanding of what's weird and you might have missed it if they brought it up and that was the only correct unusual

19:18

thing for the game to be based off of later in the scene now this isn't a universal rule even in this game of the

19:25

scene style improv but it is a rule that some teachers will teach that is their

19:31

philosophy and now my opinion is that is a valid philosophy like any others it

19:37

just doesn't work for me as the type of improviser I am with the neurotype that

19:43

I have I have a different philosophy and neither of these are any less good or

19:49

valid or anything they're just different and every philosophy that we come across

19:54

this and other ones will have their own pros and cons just the con of needing to

20:01

find the very very first unusual thing in the scene that con for my brain it's

20:07

too big it has too many drawbacks so I use a different one instead and I do want to point out that ner Divergent

20:14

people some of us myself included can be rule followers if I go into a space that

20:21

has the rule that you must find the very very first unusual thing in the scene

20:28

that that is the correct unusual thing for the scene that is what the teacher

20:33

wants my brain will immediately want to only do that thing perfectly so I must

20:40

find what they think is the unusual thing I must get that thing that's in

20:45

their brain that they noticed as the very first unusual thing that came up at all and if I don't I'm a failure I need

20:53

to cancel all of my future improv engagements I must leave the community and go back back to farming and never

20:59

show my face in these parts ever again that is how my brain works but that is a bit cuz I did feel that way and I'm

21:06

still here so it's a bit anyways as you might notice through that that doing

21:11

things that way finding the very very first unusual thing that will be

21:17

perceived by The Audience by someone else it'll put me in my head I will be scanning is this weird to who is a

21:23

neurotypical person somewhere finding this weird will I catch it will I see it and on and on and on and then I'm not

21:29

enjoying myself I'm not flowing I'm not being a good improviser this way I'm

21:35

deeply in my head and I'm too focused to be a good listener and losing that good

21:41

listening thing I think is too big of a con for the benefit of noticing the

21:46

unusual thing that other people will notice as unusual and other people is

21:52

the key word the alternative is to let go and notice what you find and that to

21:58

me what you find and this might be your seam partner equally what you all agree on is the best unusual thing my way is

22:07

to just loosen up to listen make that the focus and just see what you notice

22:14

you might notice it from your scene partner saying something that's slightly unusual to you or it might be what

22:20

they're framing as unusual which might be something they did or you did and it could be the second or third thing but

22:28

all of it is still early in the scene we're not saying wait for a full minute or something this is what you and your

22:34

scene partner both notice as the unusual thing near the beginning of the scene

22:40

and that's my Philosophy for finding the best unusual thing near the beginning of

22:46

the scene as opposed to the very very very first one and I know that probably this might be making some of you angry

22:53

cuz I'm saying to break a rule someone might have taught you and for those of

22:59

you who are angry I'll have more on this soon so my mindset my brain works way

23:05

better for me not worrying about it being the very first unusual item that

23:11

anyone would see but of course that goes against what some of you have been taught and this also as such might come

23:19

off as rejecting an offer but we can also sort of ask the question was it an

23:24

offer because it might have been too subtle you might not have noticed it not because you're not noticing but because

23:31

of your neurotype so what you want to do is just enhance your listening and you

23:36

will be grabbing a very early offer of an unusual thing and as such you will be

23:43

grabbing a better one it's the one that you're both interested in if you both agree on it and you both communicate

23:50

that thing and I believe that's going to work better for the improvisors and in the end it could very well be working

23:57

better for for the scene and it just takes that stress off the top of the

24:03

scene you aren't as worried about something that is difficult potentially for you to notice or see or hear you

24:12

just know that it is going to happen early on I listen better without the

24:18

pressure of finding that very very first thing that if my seam partner sees and

24:23

Frames something I'll hopefully just get to that immediately anyway ways I'm way

24:28

more focused on my seen partner as opposed to just scanning for those

24:34

unusual things I'm being natural and I'm just using my natural neurotype in this

24:41

process as opposed to trying to do the translation into neurotypical adding

24:46

that neurotypical neurod Divergent translation process takes a lot of Cycles on its own and I believe it's too

24:53

many cycles for improv and once I did that I got a lot more bandwidth in my

24:59

brain anyway so I could just be in the scene and now I just barely notice any

25:04

of it I guess it just sort of happens that much more efficiently now so I think the key here is to just focus on

25:12

being with your scene partner more you're listening you're communicating and I believe that that leads to the

25:19

best thing being picked up as the unusual that leads to the game being on that same page is leading to a better

25:27

scene and that ultimately might be just as fast in the end maybe it even lends

25:35

itself to finding something with your seam Partners better and faster if you

25:42

end up because you're so efficient noticing the very first thing great good

25:47

on you but if it's the second thing that you both agree on that came up and you

25:52

both saw it's weird maybe that's the better game anyways so the one thing that you don't want to do in this

25:59

process is force something weird in us neurod divergents we are pretty good at

26:06

being weird by definition we're Divergent but we don't want to force

26:11

something into the scene this isn't good and it won't be funny and I'm using very

26:16

definitive language there and if that's controversial so be it because I'll stand behind that one you don't want to

26:23

force stuff in you want to just be yourself and if that happens to be weird

26:28

that is fine you'll sometimes be accused of forcing it because sometimes neurotypical people just don't get us

26:35

but make sure that you know you aren't actually forcing something in like truly

26:42

ask yourself don't lie to yourself or just make a mental note of what they

26:48

said in the note and see if you might want to adjust some of that at any rate

26:55

be your honest weird self and you'll sometimes be framed as the

27:01

weird one and that's okay because it's not forced and I know that some of the notes might be a little bit difficult

27:08

like I was just explaining about how sometimes we get framed as the weird one

27:14

or somebody will pick up on something that is particularly weird but it did come from an honest place it might have

27:20

really happened don't let that stuff get too much in your head because it is at the end of the day a really nice

27:27

experience to just let go and be ourselves and we do know that we're Nur div virgin we do know what we are and

27:35

I'm perfectly happy with that and I think that that sort of learning process

27:40

can be a neat one to sort of get through improv and if you choose to adjust great

27:45

but I think the main focus here is just being you and seeing what happens from

27:52

that place and it can be very rewarding in the end so in this next section I'll give some improv tips for the neurod

27:59

Divergence out there first of all know that this is going to be very different for all of us so take any of these tips

28:06

and advice as usual on an as needed basis I'm a very high masking autistic

28:12

ADHD individual so my experience is going to be different from yours probably in that I can read weird I can

28:19

naturally do weird I can kind of mask as neurotypical it affects how I

28:25

communicate my prior experiences in corporate life Etc will have adjusted

28:31

what I know in communication all of this kind of things so standard disclaimer for every episode one thing that really

28:38

helped me a lot in sort of understanding what was unusual how it happened how it

28:43

was grasped in the scene was watching a ton of experienced improvisers doing

28:49

this in online Liv streams from the cities this was the best advice I was

28:56

given and I think it's some of the best advice I can share for a lot of improv things I figure that watching these live

29:03

streams of experienced improvisors is just as important as classes and Reps to

29:09

explain some of this stuff and make it make sense it can be timec consuming and expensive for many of the live streams

29:16

but I do find it extremely helpful so if you can access them I do recommend those

29:21

live streams when you do want to connect with your scene Partners at the top of the scene to do the listening to listen

29:28

hard to connect with them do this in whatever way makes the most sense for

29:34

you to connect this could be through eye contact it might not be that might not be something that you can access and

29:41

that's okay play around and find the best ways to listen hard at the top of

29:47

the scene and find which ways work best for you at the top of the scene don't be

29:52

afraid to explore That Base reality a little bit to set it up clearly and make that make sense for you because that

29:59

Firm Foundation of knowing who your character is and where you are all that sort of thing is really going to help

30:06

you find that unusual thing quickly and someone will frame the unusual it might

30:12

be you but it might be one of your scene Partners make sure you're just scanning for that unusual thing or scanning for

30:20

the framing you can also rely on the framing if you have difficulty picking

30:25

out the unusual thing because maybe that just it doesn't make sense to you watch for the framing because somebody will do

30:32

that framing so maybe watching for the framing is a little bit easier than watching for the unusual and you can

30:38

focus on that until you get more comfortable in general and if you're framing something and maybe your scene

30:44

partner doesn't pick up on that like maybe it's not something that's weird to them but it is weird to you find

30:51

different ways to frame or you can just literally say that's weird or whatever

30:56

you might need to use that hard hand at times especially if you're playing with people you don't know that well yet so

31:03

that harder hand is okay especially in those cases and in general even if you

31:10

are very experienced playing with very experienced people there are times when that hard hand of that's weird is

31:18

perfectly acceptable so don't be afraid to use that when you need to with time and Reps hopefully end up getting this

31:25

all done faster and better and really efficient and funnier and go you that's

31:30

great but remember that that exploration like I was just talking about is valid

31:35

it's especially good for setting the solid foundation of a scene or a set so

31:41

it's not a bad thing if things move a little bit slower because ultimately it

31:46

might make for a better scene in the end and that solid foundation can help with

31:51

other things like setting up stronger characters or giving you the better Foundation for secondary games that you

31:59

can flip between so don't be afraid to explore a little bit so what if you have

32:04

issues in this area well one of the things that you can do is to ask for a set way to point out the unusual and

32:11

frame it this might be in a learning context it might be in a class or you might be coached Etc or you might be

32:18

just working with a team practicing this particular thing so you can all communicate better you might ask for a

32:25

specific type of reaction this could be physical it could be verbal like wow

32:30

that's weird it doesn't matter this is just to learn so whatever works best for you whatever you notice best see if you

32:37

can set up a very specific reaction that's used to frame the unusual and

32:43

that can make it a little bit easier to start noticing unusual things in general

32:49

before they're framed so you can frame them eventually if something doesn't make sense why it's weird discuss this

32:56

afterwards ask your teacher or your coach or even your seam partner why did you find that weird I just didn't

33:02

understand myself and this isn't a commentary on your scene partner or you

33:07

is just a communication thing that exists don't be afraid to have some of

33:12

those discussions afterwards about what made that weird or how do I notice that

33:17

thing this all comes down to the framing because sometimes I'm going to find a thing that my scam partner doesn't find

33:24

weird but I'm going to frame it as such to get everyone on the same page and we don't have to agree that it's weird we

33:31

just have to move on from that place it is agreeing that it's weird for the scene but you don't have to agree that

33:37

it's a weird thing in real life you're just using it for the make them UPS so you can do a lot of this without really

33:46

understanding why something is unusual you might never understand what makes

33:52

those things unusual but you can focus on the frame in part first watching for

33:59

that because it's a lot easier to do especially if you get some help in this area get good at the framing first and

34:06

then focus a little bit more on noticing the unusual thing and you can even take

34:13

something pretty mundane that might not be unusual but frame it as such so a lot

34:19

can get lost in translation between neurotypical and neurod Divergent improvisors and sorting out what is

34:27

unusual in a scene can be a source of difficulty for all of us regardless of

34:32

neurotype but it can be especially hard or a little bit harder when we have

34:38

different cognitive wiring to start off with and that's just because we communicate differently we can work on

34:45

this communication though and that's going to be using techniques like framing the unusual thing and listening

34:52

in more efficient ways to get there and hopefully not worrying about it being

34:58

the very very first unusual thing that other people find unusual it's really

35:04

useful to work with trusted improvisers that you know say in a Practice Group to

35:11

try some exercises to get used to recognizing patterns or how people frame

35:16

in order to get used to noticing the unusual thing it's also a great practice

35:23

to watch really seasoned improvisors say on those Liv streams to see how it's

35:28

done by those with a lot of experience see if you can maybe pick out some of the unusual things before they're

35:35

heightened see if you can see the improvisors noticing it or framing it in

35:40

that top of the scene see if maybe you can notice some of the subtle reactions as well what do they look like get good

35:47

at predicting moves watching improv like that it's kind of a class on its own and

35:53

also don't force it in there just don't worry about about it being that very

35:58

first thing you want to find it early and fairly quick but if you don't syn up

36:03

on the very very first thing personally I don't stress about that what you find

36:08

with your scene partner might be the better unusual thing anyways because you

36:13

both saw it you both agreed on it naturally so listen hard sync up get

36:19

used to communicating with your scene partners and getting on that same page

36:24

with them by what you both find unusual all right that's it for this week let's

36:31

close this episode out I have classes at WG improv school.com I have a lab coming

36:39

up and the lab is a series of classes where we're going to learn a brand new form and we're going to Output it on the

36:47

internet in a new way uh using a newer type of streaming technology that's not

36:53

zoom and it's also going to be output to a podcast on our we just podcast channel

36:59

so go look at the site WG improv school.com it's under the online classes

37:04

page I also have a site of my own at fla improv.com I have a lot of information

37:11

on there about online classes and jams and podcasts and so on and I have a newsletter that comes out a couple times

37:18

per month about what's going on in the community so check that out and also on that same website I have a page for this

37:25

podcast and you can send me messages or if you have a comment about something

37:30

that I've said that you'd like me to read out from you I can do that too so that's at flat improv.com

37:37

substack if you'd like to send me a message and also I told you in this episode to go watch some good live

37:43

streams so I will note that I do mention some of those in my newsletter so if you're wondering where do I go subscribe

37:49

to the newsletter and it will have links in it all right so here's an aside for

37:56

the weirds and I use that term with respect and love it's what I call myself all right so I recently saw a video

38:04

about how accommodating and self-accommodating is good but forcing

38:09

disabled people to do things and be uncomfortable is bad like telling a

38:14

neurod Divergent person to just do this is not great so I want to make it clear

38:21

that I'm not here to say to force yourself to do something something I'm

38:27

basically about accommodating yourself in improv doing you and communicating

38:33

and understanding as much as possible like we kind of have to be able to

38:38

communicate because this is a team thing it's a group thing it's a learning situation so to be part of it all we do

38:45

have to communicate in some ways and communication's always weird there's

38:50

always things getting Lost in Translation speaking up is hard but in some cases we might need need to right

38:57

and uh there's many ways to do all of that and that's what we're focused on here in the series and maybe these are

39:05

workarounds but I think just being aware on both sides neurotypical and neurod

39:10

Divergent is a good first step and if anything happens from this series I hope

39:15

that it's that that people are aware that these differences exist that these differences in communication exist and

39:23

that also we learn that we're not alone that others out there like us dealing

39:29

with exactly these things so communicating as neurod Divergence can

39:35

be a challenge and according to some of those studies we might communicate more effectively with each other like the

39:41

telephone study that I mentioned earlier but none of this is easy even to neurode

39:47

Divergent people communicating can be difficult as well so just remember that

39:52

you don't have to do anything that you don't want to do especially in improv

39:58

this is a very voluntary activity for I think all of us so self accommodate be

40:06

proactive and do what you need to do for improv and most importantly yourself use

40:14

these if they're useful to you and throw away everything that is not do not force

40:21

yourself to do anything and I think that's all I have thanks for listen

40:27

[Music]

40:39

listening you know who made

40:45

About the Podcast

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Neurodivergent Minds in Comedy
Podcast episodes are about comedy and neurodivergence (mostly autism & ADHD). The topics are relevant to comedy, improv, acting, and performance. Even if you are not a neurodivergent person, you are doing comedy and performing with us!

About your host

Profile picture for Jen deHaan

Jen deHaan

Jen deHaan founded StereoForest, Improv Update and NeurodiversityImprov.com. She has been a teacher and coach at/with World’s Greatest Improv School (WGIS), Highwire Improv, and Queen City Comedy. She was also the Online School Director of WGIS. She does improv and creates, directs, and produces comedy shows and podcasts such as the ones at StereoForest.

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